To pray in school is an argument that has gone to the Supreme court multiple times. Personally, after going to school for my whole life except for this year, I am completely for it. To take a moment out of your day to reflect and, for me, talk to the big man upstairs, is completely fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying. Prayer is not a bad thing, it doesn’t hurt anyone, cause any problems, and can be done in multiple ways that could help those who might be a little sensitive about the issue. Accordingly, the big question is, ‘Are teachers allowed to condone prayer in public schools thus having students participate in it?’ First off, Freedom of Religion as well as Freedom of Speech is obviously both protected in the First Amendment of our Constitution. The first Amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press…” Having our opinions, beliefs, and thoughts being censored goes completely against our God given rights. Secondly, prayer in school truly is part of our country’s legacy. According to an article, it wasn’t until the 1960’s that prayer in school was banned due to a new interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. In fact, in 1782 congress passed a resolution stating “The congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.” Out of the first 108 universities established in our country, 106 were mainly Christian, even having Harvard’s first rule of their student handbook requiring Greek and Latin to be known for the study of scriptures. Prayer was completely fine for 178 years, and due to an interpretation, it is now considered outlawed. Lastly, one must ask if about the rights of the teacher and if, because public schools are part of the government, they are considered part of the government or not. The government asks teachers to be neutral about how they deal with religion by not showing preference. Also, the first amendment does forbid religious activity sponsored by the government but at the same time protects the religious activity started by a private individual. Therefore prayer started by the teacher should be allowed because they do not surrender their own personal rights when they enter education. The teacher still has their rights when they enter public education and should always uphold their rights as well as be allowed to express what they believe in. I believe that if a student doesn‘t want to participate then don‘t have to, because they too are protected under the First Amendment, but don’t ruin it for the majority that supports prayer. During that time of prayer they could do homework, check their cell-phone, and maybe talk to another student that isn’t involved in the prayer. Overall, prayer in school is an argument that doesn’t need to be debated. Prayer in school is part of our country and is protected by the First Amendment under private individuals. Finally, I leave you with this quote by Cardinal McIntyre on prayer in public schools, saying, "In embracing the materialistic concepts of life as the religion of man and denying the almost universal acceptance that creation was divine, and the necessary consequences flowing there from, the effect of the decision (referring to the banning of prayer in schools) can only mean that our American heritage of philosophy, of religion, and of freedom are being abandoned in imitation of Soviet philosophy, of Soviet materialism, and of Soviet-regimented liberty."
Prayer in public schools should in no way be allowed. Public schools focus should be on education not on religion. When you go to church they are not trying to educate you, so why try to pursue religion in schools? Quit trying to connect school and religion. This controversy between school and religion all started because of the 1962 case Engel vs. Vitale. This case was the one that banned official prayer from public schools. Now these public schools try to stay completely neutral when it comes to religion. This is what they tell their teachers at the schools to do also. They should not show any side of whether public prayer should be or should not be banned in public schools. Schools are not trying to take away family morals just seemly trying to educate children. You claim that “prayer does not hurt anyone”, but do you know a big reason why this whole problem of prayer in school started? A lady named Madalyn Murray O’Hair sued a school district in Maryland since her son was being forced to participate in prayer while in school. In 1962 she took the school all the way to Supreme Court, in which she won. After this ruling she repeatedly got threatening phone calls and nasty graffiti on her house. In 1995 she went missing and in 2001 her dead, mutilated body was found. So you say prayer in school does not hurt anyone? Well I do not think Madalyn and her family would agree. You also previously said that by restricting prayer in school ones right to the first amendment is violated. Well what about those students that do not want to participate in school prayer? What happened to their rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech? Now this may be fair to the students who want to pray during school hours but not the ones that do not. They are being forced to participate in a religion that they might not believe in. Also, prayer in school on an independent basis is legal, so formal school prayer would be completely unnecessary. These students that want to pray in school are more than welcome if they do it in a non-disruptive way. Another reason prayer should not be allowed in school is because it would violate the “separation of church and state”. This is a phrase that has been pursued in our country since 1802. It was first said by one of our own presidents, Thomas Jefferson. The “separation of church and state” is a belief people have where the state should stay out of the church’s business and the church should stay out of the state’s business as well. It is most recognized when the government becomes involved with the church. Followers of the church tend to make uproar about the government trying to control their religious beliefs and morals. On the other hand, does anyone stick up for the government when the church tries to get in their business? No one seems to say anything then. Churches and followers of these churches are trying to stick their noses in the governments business demanding prayer in these government funded schools. If people are so upset about their kids not being able to be guided in a prayer process while at school, the answer is obvious. Send your children to a private school that follows your families preferred religion and stop trying to interfere with the government funded schools that refrain from prayer in schools. Prayer in school is a controversial topic and obviously does need to be debated. People feel strongly about both sides of this issue, but clearly school in public schools should not be allowed.
To begin, I can see you one would believe that going to Church do not educate people, but in fact when going to mass, people do learn. To be able to gain a better perspective on religion, members of that religion study scripture and listen to the heads of the clergy to gain insight. They learn more about their religion, their life, both spiritual and mortal, stories, and prayers. But if you’re thinking, then to just do that at a Mass, or other religious service, that is restricting our freedom to practice our religion. That’s the beautiful thing about practicing religion, in our free country, it can be done anywhere. A major part about prayer in school that is looked over is that prayer is voluntary. The United States is founded as one nation under God, and the problem is that these kids in public schools are not receiving the opportunity to pray throughout the sometimes strenuous eight hour work day without being scrutinized and possibly penalized by the school. Also, coming back to the first amendment being violated, they are not required to pray because it is their right. They have the option of whether or not to participate which is what freedom means. The definition of freedom is the power to determine action without restraint. Is there something wrong with giving students 5 minutes out of class to voluntarily pray, or look over notes, or do homework before the start of class? Next, prayer is universal practice and can be done in not just one religion, but all religions, and all those who believe in a supreme being. The State of New York was wrong in installing the Regent’s Prayer because it picked out a certain religion, but because prayer is universal, it does not center on one religion. Therefore no one religion is viewed as inferior or superior, nor one person better than the other. Therefore, instead of the minority getting the long end of the stick for their preference, the majority of the United States should have their preference. So, in a country with a majority looking to express their beliefs, some of us are left to ask why they are being restricted for a spiritual belief. Atheists like Madelyn Murray O’Hair are in the clear minority of the U.S. over 90% of Americans profess belief in a higher power, God, Allah, Supreme Being, etc. why should the tail wag the dog when the vast majority believe in some form of spirituality. Thomas Jefferson and our founding fathers made sure that separation of church and state was in the constitution because they were being persecuted for their religious beliefs and wanted to make sure that their right to practice and express their beliefs was protected by law not condemned by it. Our country was founded on strong core religious values, our currency even says ‘In God We Trust’, our Pledge of Allegiance, we are ‘One nation under God‘, and our presidents usually end their State of the Union with ‘May God bless the United States of America'. We are and always have been a nation of diversity tolerance and acceptance and these core values must include an individual’s right to pray wherever they are.
We are talking about prayer in schools here, not banning prayer or religion all together. As of right now public prayer in public schools is not allowed, why go and change this? Public prayer should not be a part of government funded schools. Churches need to stay out of the governments business in respect for the government staying out of theirs. Like I said earlier, parents have the choice to send their children to a private school that would support their religious beliefs and morals. If one is a practicing Protestant, there are schools that are owned and run by Protestants with the same beliefs. These Protestant beliefs will be taught in the school daily. Public schools consist of students with all different sorts of beliefs. Schools cannot participate in public prayer when not everyone has the same beliefs, yet private schools can. I understand that our country was founded on core religious values, but our country was also founded in 1776. Hello, it is the 21st century and a lot of things have changed within our nation. In the 17th century, when our country was founded majority of United States citizens were protestant. In the present 21st century majority of the United States citizens are practicing Christians. If we held on to all the beliefs are former fathers had when our country was founded we would never grow as a nation. Another controversy within public schools is whether one has to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance during school hours. The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag was founded in order to show pride to the United States as a free country. Before the millennium students were required to say the pledge but ever since then it is not mandatory. This controversy all started because of two words near the end of the pledge, “under god”. Students and parents of public schools started rebelling saying it is not fair to require people to say this before school especially when not everyone believes in a “god” or a higher being. It is now not, nor should it be, mandatory for students in public schools to say the pledge. You previously made a claim that one does in fact learn at church. During mass people are gaining completely different knowledge than one learns at school. Sure, church can help one gain a better perspective on their practicing religion but do they teach science, mathematics, or physical education like a public school does? Public schools and religion do not go hand in hand. Another reason why prayer is not allowed in public school is because it is known to make children uncomfortable within the classroom setting. Like I previously stated, not everyone in public schools have the same beliefs. Actually, public schools are known for diversity which includes race, sex, ideas, and even religion. Students are able to have a few minutes to pray during public schools but public prayer would be painful for these diverse students since all of them are not practicing the same religion or even practicing religion at all. You asked “Is there something wrong with giving students 5 minutes out of class to voluntarily pray, or look over notes, or do homework before the start of class?” To answer this question this is what a lot of public schools indeed do for students. Students are allowed to pray to themselves before class non-disruptively. With all this said, prayer and schools have a lot of controversy in deciding whether to include public prayer ceremony every day in public schools. Clearly, the answer is no. Prayer should not be allowed in schools that are ran by the government.
I definitely feel that Stephanie's argument was very valid. Unless the church is funding the school, the schools should not be obligated to add a moment of prayer. I felt that Andy was not necessarily attacking main points of Stephanie's argument but minor points because his arguments did not seem as strong or seem to compete with Stephanie's view. I also like the idea that Stephanie brings the modern world into perspective. Not all people believe in God and most people don't go to church regularly. With this, providing a section of prayer during school time is not only irrelevant to the focus of school, but not a good use of time because most people aren't active in their faith. I also like how she brought up the idea that prayer is optional and should not be mandatory and that people could always go to a private school for prayer and religion. It gives us an option in this black and white issue. The idea that she brought up a similar issue, the pledge of allegiance, is a great example of a modern change because of lack of religion and separation of church and state. I feel that if Andy had more examples, he would be able to create a stronger argument. Overall, I really enjoyed reading this discussion and thought that you guys did a great job debating this issue!
I feel that Andy’s argument won the debate overall. The statistic saying “Prayer was completely fine for 178 years, and due to an interpretation, it is now considered outlawed.” Is very true. Andy covered all aspects on this debate appropriately. When I went on to read Stephanie’s first comment, her first sentence saying “Public schools focus should be on education not on religion. When you go to church they are not trying to educate you, so why try to pursue religion in schools” threw me off. She started out by throwing her opinion into the argument than said an invalid fact. Part of church is learning about god. She also used a piece of evidence that could easily be over run. The use of Madalyn Murray O’Hair suing a school district is a different crime in itself. Yes her son was forced to practice religion, but does that mean since one school went wrong then we have to ban all schools from preying. If anything, I believe that is a logical fallacy. Another point that Andy made which one me over to his side was “the problem is that these kids in public schools are not receiving the opportunity to pray throughout the sometimes strenuous eight hour work day without being scrutinized and possibly penalized by the school”. I agree with that statement. Stephanie using “Like I said earlier, parents have the choice to send their children to a private school that would support their religious beliefs and morals.”, doesn’t bring the idea that all families can’t afford private school. Overall I liked the debate and both opposing sides. Stephanie made some good arguments, but could of supported them a little better as where I feel Andy took this debate and his arguments/evidence proved to be stronger.
All in all, I feel that both Stephanie and Andy both made some very valid points in their arguments. I really liked how Andy brought up the religion in the past and that Stephanie brought up how religion is viewed in the 21st century in her rebuttal. This shows how the practice of religion has changed over time. The example of the case of Madalyn Murray O’Hair that Stephanie brought up was very well put. I feel like it was a prime example of how in some cases religion could possibly be "harmful". The quotes that both Andy and Stephanie used within their arguments were well put and it made their arguments seem very factual and credible. I really liked when Stephanie stated that we have private schools in order to accommodate those that would like to continue their prayer in schools. The private schools provide a perfect place for students to continue worshiping their religion throughout the day while learning and not disturbing others at the same time. Andy brought up a very good point when he stated that students could pray before class would not disturb other students. I feel that praying before class is a very good way to continue your religion in a public school but others may not see it that way. Although prayer may not be disruptive to others in a public school if done at the appropriate time, it may cause others to feel uncomfortable, which is why many see prayer in public schools as “wrong”. In conclusion, I feel that both Stephanie and Andy made very valid points in their arguments. They used many facts to support their claims. Both students did a very well job in stating their opinion on Prayer In School.
This discussion was surely heated and I must say that both participants argued very well considering that religion today has been a controversy for years now. I personally being catholic and knowing what it is like to have church in my life understand where Andy is coming from. I also have family who are not as religious and choose to stay that way because that is what they believe. Growing up, it was required for me and my classmates to say the Pledge of allegiance. I never went against it, and I never thought that by saying those words, that it would offend people. Madalyn O’Hair is just one of the many people who had her beliefs viewed differently, and in the end she was punished for sticking up for what she believed in. There is a saying that I always hear from my parents, “it’s better to stick up for what you believe in than stick up for something that you don’t just to be liked.” I have always gone with what I know and what I have been taught. For me, this year alone has been extremely religious and I would not have had it any other way. God was there for me when I felt like no one else was when my sister was fighting for her life. I was in constant contact with God and with him as my witness; I will never go a day without some sort of prayer. Prayer has a different meaning for everyone and although some don’t agree, they have that option to disagree. Both partners did well and I believe that it was good to know that even though people disagree, they are able to be at peace in one way or another.
To pray in school is an argument that has gone to the Supreme court multiple times. Personally, after going to school for my whole life except for this year, I am completely for it. To take a moment out of your day to reflect and, for me, talk to the big man upstairs, is completely fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with praying. Prayer is not a bad thing, it doesn’t hurt anyone, cause any problems, and can be done in multiple ways that could help those who might be a little sensitive about the issue.
ReplyDeleteAccordingly, the big question is, ‘Are teachers allowed to condone prayer in public schools thus having students participate in it?’ First off, Freedom of Religion as well as Freedom of Speech is obviously both protected in the First Amendment of our Constitution. The first Amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press…” Having our opinions, beliefs, and thoughts being censored goes completely against our God given rights.
Secondly, prayer in school truly is part of our country’s legacy. According to an article, it wasn’t until the 1960’s that prayer in school was banned due to a new interpretation of the U.S. Constitution. In fact, in 1782 congress passed a resolution stating “The congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools.” Out of the first 108 universities established in our country, 106 were mainly Christian, even having Harvard’s first rule of their student handbook requiring Greek and Latin to be known for the study of scriptures. Prayer was completely fine for 178 years, and due to an interpretation, it is now considered outlawed.
Lastly, one must ask if about the rights of the teacher and if, because public schools are part of the government, they are considered part of the government or not. The government asks teachers to be neutral about how they deal with religion by not showing preference. Also, the first amendment does forbid religious activity sponsored by the government but at the same time protects the religious activity started by a private individual. Therefore prayer started by the teacher should be allowed because they do not surrender their own personal rights when they enter education. The teacher still has their rights when they enter public education and should always uphold their rights as well as be allowed to express what they believe in. I believe that if a student doesn‘t want to participate then don‘t have to, because they too are protected under the First Amendment, but don’t ruin it for the majority that supports prayer. During that time of prayer they could do homework, check their cell-phone, and maybe talk to another student that isn’t involved in the prayer.
Overall, prayer in school is an argument that doesn’t need to be debated. Prayer in school is part of our country and is protected by the First Amendment under private individuals. Finally, I leave you with this quote by Cardinal McIntyre on prayer in public schools, saying, "In embracing the materialistic concepts of life as the religion of man and denying the almost universal acceptance that creation was divine, and the necessary consequences flowing there from, the effect of the decision (referring to the banning of prayer in schools) can only mean that our American heritage of philosophy, of religion, and of freedom are being abandoned in imitation of Soviet philosophy, of Soviet materialism, and of Soviet-regimented liberty."
My bad at the beginning i meant to put down : Personally, after going to catholic* school my whole life.
ReplyDeletePrayer in public schools should in no way be allowed. Public schools focus should be on education not on religion. When you go to church they are not trying to educate you, so why try to pursue religion in schools? Quit trying to connect school and religion.
ReplyDeleteThis controversy between school and religion all started because of the 1962 case Engel vs. Vitale. This case was the one that banned official prayer from public schools. Now these public schools try to stay completely neutral when it comes to religion. This is what they tell their teachers at the schools to do also. They should not show any side of whether public prayer should be or should not be banned in public schools. Schools are not trying to take away family morals just seemly trying to educate children.
You claim that “prayer does not hurt anyone”, but do you know a big reason why this whole problem of prayer in school started? A lady named Madalyn Murray O’Hair sued a school district in Maryland since her son was being forced to participate in prayer while in school. In 1962 she took the school all the way to Supreme Court, in which she won. After this ruling she repeatedly got threatening phone calls and nasty graffiti on her house. In 1995 she went missing and in 2001 her dead, mutilated body was found. So you say prayer in school does not hurt anyone? Well I do not think Madalyn and her family would agree.
You also previously said that by restricting prayer in school ones right to the first amendment is violated. Well what about those students that do not want to participate in school prayer? What happened to their rights of freedom of religion and freedom of speech? Now this may be fair to the students who want to pray during school hours but not the ones that do not. They are being forced to participate in a religion that they might not believe in. Also, prayer in school on an independent basis is legal, so formal school prayer would be completely unnecessary. These students that want to pray in school are more than welcome if they do it in a non-disruptive way.
Another reason prayer should not be allowed in school is because it would violate the “separation of church and state”. This is a phrase that has been pursued in our country since 1802. It was first said by one of our own presidents, Thomas Jefferson. The “separation of church and state” is a belief people have where the state should stay out of the church’s business and the church should stay out of the state’s business as well. It is most recognized when the government becomes involved with the church. Followers of the church tend to make uproar about the government trying to control their religious beliefs and morals. On the other hand, does anyone stick up for the government when the church tries to get in their business? No one seems to say anything then. Churches and followers of these churches are trying to stick their noses in the governments business demanding prayer in these government funded schools. If people are so upset about their kids not being able to be guided in a prayer process while at school, the answer is obvious. Send your children to a private school that follows your families preferred religion and stop trying to interfere with the government funded schools that refrain from prayer in schools.
Prayer in school is a controversial topic and obviously does need to be debated. People feel strongly about both sides of this issue, but clearly school in public schools should not be allowed.
To begin, I can see you one would believe that going to Church do not educate people, but in fact when going to mass, people do learn. To be able to gain a better perspective on religion, members of that religion study scripture and listen to the heads of the clergy to gain insight. They learn more about their religion, their life, both spiritual and mortal, stories, and prayers. But if you’re thinking, then to just do that at a Mass, or other religious service, that is restricting our freedom to practice our religion. That’s the beautiful thing about practicing religion, in our free country, it can be done anywhere.
ReplyDeleteA major part about prayer in school that is looked over is that prayer is voluntary. The United States is founded as one nation under God, and the problem is that these kids in public schools are not receiving the opportunity to pray throughout the sometimes strenuous eight hour work day without being scrutinized and possibly penalized by the school. Also, coming back to the first amendment being violated, they are not required to pray because it is their right. They have the option of whether or not to participate which is what freedom means. The definition of freedom is the power to determine action without restraint. Is there something wrong with giving students 5 minutes out of class to voluntarily pray, or look over notes, or do homework before the start of class?
Next, prayer is universal practice and can be done in not just one religion, but all religions, and all those who believe in a supreme being. The State of New York was wrong in installing the Regent’s Prayer because it picked out a certain religion, but because prayer is universal, it does not center on one religion. Therefore no one religion is viewed as inferior or superior, nor one person better than the other. Therefore, instead of the minority getting the long end of the stick for their preference, the majority of the United States should have their preference. So, in a country with a majority looking to express their beliefs, some of us are left to ask why they are being restricted for a spiritual belief.
Atheists like Madelyn Murray O’Hair are in the clear minority of the U.S. over 90% of Americans profess belief in a higher power, God, Allah, Supreme Being, etc. why should the tail wag the dog when the vast majority believe in some form of spirituality. Thomas Jefferson and our founding fathers made sure that separation of church and state was in the constitution because they were being persecuted for their religious beliefs and wanted to make sure that their right to practice and express their beliefs was protected by law not condemned by it. Our country was founded on strong core religious values, our currency even says ‘In God We Trust’, our Pledge of Allegiance, we are ‘One nation under God‘, and our presidents usually end their State of the Union with ‘May God bless the United States of America'. We are and always have been a nation of diversity tolerance and acceptance and these core values must include an individual’s right to pray wherever they are.
We are talking about prayer in schools here, not banning prayer or religion all together. As of right now public prayer in public schools is not allowed, why go and change this? Public prayer should not be a part of government funded schools. Churches need to stay out of the governments business in respect for the government staying out of theirs.
ReplyDeleteLike I said earlier, parents have the choice to send their children to a private school that would support their religious beliefs and morals. If one is a practicing Protestant, there are schools that are owned and run by Protestants with the same beliefs. These Protestant beliefs will be taught in the school daily. Public schools consist of students with all different sorts of beliefs. Schools cannot participate in public prayer when not everyone has the same beliefs, yet private schools can.
I understand that our country was founded on core religious values, but our country was also founded in 1776. Hello, it is the 21st century and a lot of things have changed within our nation. In the 17th century, when our country was founded majority of United States citizens were protestant. In the present 21st century majority of the United States citizens are practicing Christians. If we held on to all the beliefs are former fathers had when our country was founded we would never grow as a nation.
Another controversy within public schools is whether one has to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance during school hours. The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag was founded in order to show pride to the United States as a free country. Before the millennium students were required to say the pledge but ever since then it is not mandatory. This controversy all started because of two words near the end of the pledge, “under god”. Students and parents of public schools started rebelling saying it is not fair to require people to say this before school especially when not everyone believes in a “god” or a higher being. It is now not, nor should it be, mandatory for students in public schools to say the pledge.
You previously made a claim that one does in fact learn at church. During mass people are gaining completely different knowledge than one learns at school. Sure, church can help one gain a better perspective on their practicing religion but do they teach science, mathematics, or physical education like a public school does? Public schools and religion do not go hand in hand.
Another reason why prayer is not allowed in public school is because it is known to make children uncomfortable within the classroom setting. Like I previously stated, not everyone in public schools have the same beliefs. Actually, public schools are known for diversity which includes race, sex, ideas, and even religion. Students are able to have a few minutes to pray during public schools but public prayer would be painful for these diverse students since all of them are not practicing the same religion or even practicing religion at all. You asked “Is there something wrong with giving students 5 minutes out of class to voluntarily pray, or look over notes, or do homework before the start of class?” To answer this question this is what a lot of public schools indeed do for students. Students are allowed to pray to themselves before class non-disruptively.
With all this said, prayer and schools have a lot of controversy in deciding whether to include public prayer ceremony every day in public schools. Clearly, the answer is no. Prayer should not be allowed in schools that are ran by the government.
I definitely feel that Stephanie's argument was very valid. Unless the church is funding the school, the schools should not be obligated to add a moment of prayer. I felt that Andy was not necessarily attacking main points of Stephanie's argument but minor points because his arguments did not seem as strong or seem to compete with Stephanie's view. I also like the idea that Stephanie brings the modern world into perspective. Not all people believe in God and most people don't go to church regularly. With this, providing a section of prayer during school time is not only irrelevant to the focus of school, but not a good use of time because most people aren't active in their faith. I also like how she brought up the idea that prayer is optional and should not be mandatory and that people could always go to a private school for prayer and religion. It gives us an option in this black and white issue. The idea that she brought up a similar issue, the pledge of allegiance, is a great example of a modern change because of lack of religion and separation of church and state. I feel that if Andy had more examples, he would be able to create a stronger argument. Overall, I really enjoyed reading this discussion and thought that you guys did a great job debating this issue!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI feel that Andy’s argument won the debate overall. The statistic saying “Prayer was completely fine for 178 years, and due to an interpretation, it is now considered outlawed.” Is very true. Andy covered all aspects on this debate appropriately. When I went on to read Stephanie’s first comment, her first sentence saying “Public schools focus should be on education not on religion. When you go to church they are not trying to educate you, so why try to pursue religion in schools” threw me off. She started out by throwing her opinion into the argument than said an invalid fact. Part of church is learning about god. She also used a piece of evidence that could easily be over run. The use of Madalyn Murray O’Hair suing a school district is a different crime in itself. Yes her son was forced to practice religion, but does that mean since one school went wrong then we have to ban all schools from preying. If anything, I believe that is a logical fallacy. Another point that Andy made which one me over to his side was “the problem is that these kids in public schools are not receiving the opportunity to pray throughout the sometimes strenuous eight hour work day without being scrutinized and possibly penalized by the school”. I agree with that statement. Stephanie using “Like I said earlier, parents have the choice to send their children to a private school that would support their religious beliefs and morals.”, doesn’t bring the idea that all families can’t afford private school. Overall I liked the debate and both opposing sides. Stephanie made some good arguments, but could of supported them a little better as where I feel Andy took this debate and his arguments/evidence proved to be stronger.
ReplyDeleteAll in all, I feel that both Stephanie and Andy both made some very valid points in their arguments. I really liked how Andy brought up the religion in the past and that Stephanie brought up how religion is viewed in the 21st century in her rebuttal. This shows how the practice of religion has changed over time. The example of the case of Madalyn Murray O’Hair that Stephanie brought up was very well put. I feel like it was a prime example of how in some cases religion could possibly be "harmful". The quotes that both Andy and Stephanie used within their arguments were well put and it made their arguments seem very factual and credible. I really liked when Stephanie stated that we have private schools in order to accommodate those that would like to continue their prayer in schools. The private schools provide a perfect place for students to continue worshiping their religion throughout the day while learning and not disturbing others at the same time. Andy brought up a very good point when he stated that students could pray before class would not disturb other students. I feel that praying before class is a very good way to continue your religion in a public school but others may not see it that way. Although prayer may not be disruptive to others in a public school if done at the appropriate time, it may cause others to feel uncomfortable, which is why many see prayer in public schools as “wrong”. In conclusion, I feel that both Stephanie and Andy made very valid points in their arguments. They used many facts to support their claims. Both students did a very well job in stating their opinion on Prayer In School.
ReplyDeleteThis discussion was surely heated and I must say that both participants argued very well considering that religion today has been a controversy for years now. I personally being catholic and knowing what it is like to have church in my life understand where Andy is coming from. I also have family who are not as religious and choose to stay that way because that is what they believe. Growing up, it was required for me and my classmates to say the Pledge of allegiance. I never went against it, and I never thought that by saying those words, that it would offend people. Madalyn O’Hair is just one of the many people who had her beliefs viewed differently, and in the end she was punished for sticking up for what she believed in. There is a saying that I always hear from my parents, “it’s better to stick up for what you believe in than stick up for something that you don’t just to be liked.” I have always gone with what I know and what I have been taught. For me, this year alone has been extremely religious and I would not have had it any other way. God was there for me when I felt like no one else was when my sister was fighting for her life. I was in constant contact with God and with him as my witness; I will never go a day without some sort of prayer. Prayer has a different meaning for everyone and although some don’t agree, they have that option to disagree. Both partners did well and I believe that it was good to know that even though people disagree, they are able to be at peace in one way or another.
ReplyDelete